EP12: Building the Field Leadership Team from a Field Leaders' POV

"District managers are the brand—they're the stamp for everything we stand for." Elle Piper learned this truth the hard way, starting as an undertrained district manager who had to ask her own direct reports to teach her the basics. Now as Senior Director of Operations at 7 Leaves Cafe, she's helped grow the brand from a handful of stores to 41+ locations by focusing on what most operators miss: the pivotal role of field leadership. In this episode, Elle shares why you can feel a struggling store the moment you walk in, how to spot management potential through turnover patterns, and why soft skills training should come before technical training. Her journey from pandemic job loss to operational leadership offers a masterclass in building bench strength from the ground up.

Key Takeaways

• The Heartbeat Test: You can feel if a store has life—it shows in team members' faces, product quality, and customer experience
• District Managers as Brand Stamps: With hundreds of employees in their charge, DMs are the company's representation to every team member
• Tacit Approval Tells All: The #1 indicator of management commitment is what behaviors they allow to continue unchallenged
• Soft Skills First: In an AI-driven future, human connection becomes your competitive advantage—train for it now
• The Courage to Ask: Elle asked her direct reports to train her like a newbie—vulnerability in leadership drives real growth

Perfect For: Operations leaders building homegrown talent pipelines, district managers transitioning from technical excellence to people leadership, L&D teams developing field leadership programs, and executives scaling from 10 to 50+ locations while maintaining culture.

About Elle Piper: Senior Director of Operations at 7 Leaves Cafe, overseeing 41+ locations across corporate and franchise units. Started as a district manager in 2020 after losing her previous role when her company closed 97 locations during the pandemic. Former competitive athlete who approaches operations as a team sport, bringing field-tested wisdom about what actually drives store performance. Known for her emphasis on empathy without strings and building psychological safety across operations teams.

Time Stamp Chapters

• 00:00 From Pandemic Job Loss to Operations Leadership
• 02:23 Decisions I'd Handle Differently After 5 Years
• 04:48 How to Read a Store in 30 Seconds
• 08:25 Why District Managers Are Your Most Pivotal Role
• 14:10 Why Soft Skills Training Comes First
• 16:10 Turnover Never Lies: Spotting Management Potential
• 19:49 Having the Hard Conversations with High Performers
• 23:44 What Every New District Manager Needs to Know
• 31:46 Lightning Round: From Baskin Robbins to Leadership

About Us
Opus is the hospitality training platform purpose-built for the frontline. Train 100% of your team in 101 languages on the job to quickly get them up the productivity curve. With full visibility across your workforce, you get the frontline business intelligence needed to drive your business.

Have an idea or experience you'd like to share? Keep the conversation going with us on LinkedIn!

Transcript

Rachael Nemeth: 0:00

Hi everyone, welcome to Back to Basics. I am Rachel Nemuth, and I'm so, so excited to have Ellie Piper here with me today. She's the senior director of operations at Seven Leaves Cafe, and honestly, her story is exactly what the show is all about. She worked her way up from manager to where she is now, really helping drive strategic growth. And what I love about Ellie's perspective is that she's really been in the trenches and she knows what it's actually like to be on the front lines. But she's also thinking about the big picture strategy. I think it's pretty rare to find someone who can speak both languages fluently. And so if you're an operator, you're gonna get a lot out of this conversation. Um we're really diving into what it's really like to go running from day-to-day ops to making big company decisions and how working in the stores gives you a totally different view of what actually works when you're trying to grow and why the people making the best calls about opening new units are often the ones who actually worked in them. So, Ellie, thank you for being here. Welcome to Back to Basics. Thanks for the invite. I'm super excited to be here. Well, let's start with the basics. Uh, for people who don't know what Seven Leaves Cafe is, can you just give us a quick intro of the brand? Of course.

SPEAKER_01: 1:22

Yeah, so Seven Leaves, um, we are in the business to serve coffee, tea, and goodness. Uh, been around for about 14 years now. We're a family-owned founded RAN company, um, which is honestly a joy for me. Um, we serve really good coffee and tea, artisanal products. Um there's a lot of different uh shops and businesses out there in our industry. Uh, we like to pride ourselves on the fact that we are fresh um brewing, seeping, fin dripping all of our coffee and tea every single day. Uh, and working, just getting to serve the human connection as well.

Rachael Nemeth: 2:02

I love that. Um, and I wish that there was one in Brooklyn, but that's for another day. So so you joined Seven Leaves in 2020 when they were much smaller, and you've been a part of their growth into what I think today is 41 locations, over 40 locations.

SPEAKER_01: 2:18

And uh yeah, including the phantom students, yeah.

Rachael Nemeth: 2:21

Okay, got it. Uh, and I want to come back to that too. So tell me about that journey. I'm curious what decisions you made early in Seven Leaves Growth that from your perspective today you would actually handle differently. You know, you mentioned traction, but like, is traction what's the different thing, or is there something else that looking back has changed your perspective?

SPEAKER_01: 2:43

Oh, there's there's plenty. How much do you mean do we have Rachel? Um would you prefer if I answer that based off of experience this year or in my five years of being here with the I think in your hiring as a district manager? Yeah. So I was when I got a chance to come in with a little bit of history on that, I was someone that lost my job during the pandemic. So the previous concept that I worked for completely closed, 97 locations. So I was homeless in for in the terms of jobs for about six months. Um, and so I came in with just a lot of gratitude in getting to have an opportunity to uh have a uh lateral movement when not everybody had that opportunity during that time. And I came in with a belief of just you don't know what you don't know. And it made it to where I assimilated to what some of the surroundings were. And if I could do it over, I probably would have started to initiate some changes a little bit sooner than what I did. Um, which is odd because I think we usually we we tell everybody the opposite advice, like get it 60 to 90 days and just really get in and get to know your folks. But I'm also probably giving myself that advice based off of what I've been able to establish in the past year and a half. Um, if I had had a different belief in myself and the fact that folks would trust me, I probably would have would have approached things differently. So I think I had a lot more to do with learning myself.

Rachael Nemeth: 4:06

Yeah, and and kind of trusting yourself and and your your existing expertise. I I can relate to that. And I think I would I would agree if I think back on the business at Opus, you know a lot more than you think you do going into it, but I can appreciate the perspective of wanting to soak it all up before you make the big decisions. I'm really curious about your perspective. I like asking this question, especially from folks who have been on the ground. When you're walking into a struggling location or even a successful location, this is kind of can kind of go either way. What do you notice first that tells you tells you the real story, not the reports? But what do you go for?

SPEAKER_01: 4:49

You can feel it. I think you can even feel it if you're if you're a customer. I I know for a fact that our customers can feel it. Um I would put that not even just on in the world of franchise in our corporate stores as well. If a store doesn't have a heartbeat, you you know it. You you can see it on the team members' faces. You can sometimes you can experience it in the product that you're getting. Um, I I think you just know if it adds soul or if it doesn't. I recognize that I probably feel a little bit more with having been an operator and being an operator, but you know if people care about what they're doing or if they don't. And I think the the biggest thing and what we're trying to drive is that our customers are able to experience in every aspect that we care about them and we care about their experience. We are not a necessarily fully a daily consumable. We're working on becoming that way. We changed our product mix last year when we added on lattes, but we are not founded on having a full coffee product mix. We sometimes can just be a treat and a decadence for someone to add to their day. And when you're a business founded off that, you have to give people a reason to want to come back. Um, so one, we're trying to become more of a daily consumable, but that is not an excuse itself for somebody to hand you their money, especially at a time if if it's a recession or people are are budgeting or they're conscious of what they're spending. We have to deal in transactions that come with care. And a part of our mission statement includes the human experience. When none of those things exist and um a building almost feels lifeless, you've you know.

Rachael Nemeth: 6:29

What are the things that bring it back to life, though? You know, like I I agree with you. You can feel when the heart isn't there, but what's contributing to the heart not being there, and then how do you bring it back to life?

SPEAKER_01: 6:42

I think um everything will always go back to leadership. I someone that played a lot of team sports growing up. And I I think that there are individual sports that exist for a reason, and then there are team sports that exist for a reason. And our business is a team sport. We we're we're not um we're not given the opportunity for somebody to just go be in a cubicle and be on their own. Uh, it really takes commitment and synergy and a willingness to work with others, but that that only comes from from leadership. Um, is one of my favorites to to follow and learn from when it comes to talking about leadership. Um, and I think it's because he's just so wise and so honest about knowing what it means to be human. If a building is thriving and doing very well, they have a leader that cares and that cares about its people. And if there's a building that's not, there's a leader that's allowing for people to not care. Um, in our industry, district managers are like one of the most pivotal roles. Like if you don't have the right district managers leading everything, you you're gonna fail. They they are they are the brand, they're the company, they're the ones that are cascading and filtering every message. They're the representation to every team member. And the way we're structured here, our district managers have a couple hundred people in their charge. And they're they're a stamp for Seven Leaves, they're a stamp from myself. And if I don't have the right folks out there caring for our team members, then I'm gonna have customers stop coming to Seven Leaves.

Rachael Nemeth: 8:14

How how many of those district managers are are homegrown so that they're sort of already carrying the the, you know, it sounds like the folks that you're hiring for now are coming external from from outside.

SPEAKER_01: 8:24

So right now, all of our operational leaders are homegrown. And I do like to remind everybody we were all external at once. Um, but for the way we function and how much intricacies there are into the processes with our products in our culture, there is incredible value with them having been a store manager or having been in our brand. There really just genuinely is. And I'm talking from experience. Rachel, when I was hired, there was a need for district managers. And yes, I had previous experience, but I had no idea what I was doing in Seven Leaves. Um, and my training was super quick because they needed folks. And it was like four to six months into being a district manager that I had to pull two of my store managers aside and be like, please train me like I'm brand new because I feel extremely insecure and I don't think I'm doing at all what I should be doing as a team member. So there is incredible value in our district managers knowing the experience of every individual in their store because there's so much more connection and how they're able to lead and guide them.

Rachael Nemeth: 9:25

What a humble and brave thing to do, to pull aside your colleagues who report into you and say, I don't think I'm getting it right. Can you treat me like I'm a newbie? How did they respond to that?

SPEAKER_01: 9:41

Um I picked two that I felt safe with. Um, and they they were completely up for the challenge and they understood. I was also just uh very raw and honest about what my training experience was, and there's no blame to put there. The company, they they had someone going on maternity leave and they needed somebody, and they needed somebody with experience. So there was understanding, and I was able to do the things that district manager structure is able to do, but I did not feel good when I was in a store. And it also gave me a great opportunity to see how the store managers trained.

Rachael Nemeth: 10:12

Yeah. Well, and and and you didn't have a great early training experience. It it brings me back to, you know, there's so much growth that's happened with Seven Leaves over the past several years. I'm really curious. You have seen it through different growth phases. How would you characterize those phases? If you could stamp a label on each of them, what would you call them?

SPEAKER_01: 10:38

Oh, I love that question. I don't know how many transformational phases or how to classify them. Um I would probably call it uh the period of you don't know what you don't know. We know what we don't know, we're learning what we don't know, and we're making we're working on making a difference. That's probably my the best way I would classify it. And what do you think the next phase is activating, is really propelling and and capitalizing on um structures and systems that we're putting in place and continuing to to build the right amount of security and psychological safety with those that we do now have in our charge and that are leading and serving with us. And that is actually one of the hardest spots to be at because you have to be patient and allow people to do something.

unknown: 11:39

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 11:40

That's one of the biggest things that I have learned both serving in stores and operations and getting to see from different levels of departments. We want results and we want them fast, but things take time and getting a chance to stay disciplined in what your belief system is and how you want to lead and guide and giving people a little bit of time to grow.

Rachael Nemeth: 11:58

Yeah. Yeah, and adjust. So that actually brings us back to what we were talking about before. And and now I do want to kind of drift into people development as we're thinking about these different stages of growth and also the fact, as you mentioned, that especially with training, which is such a critical part of anyone's success, there's so many different styles of learning. I forgot what you had mentioned was your learning style, but what's your strategy internally right now? How are you ensuring that you're creating this, this really kind of inclusive environment? Um, but also start with what your learning style is.

SPEAKER_01: 12:34

Um I am an audible. I am I am an audible now. So I have aphantasias, so I don't see anything in my head. Um and I didn't know that about myself until a few years ago. I remember playing volleyball and coaches being like, and envision yourself hitting the ball. And everyone's always like trying to say, like, visualize, visualize. Um, I had no idea what it actually meant for others to conceptualize pictures inside their brain. Like it's um, it's very foreign to me. Um so if I was hired on and somebody is gonna ask me to like visualize making a house coffee, I'm not gonna understand anything they're saying. We do have some systems that we've been able to grow this past 12 months that are working well with the actual practical hand side, hands-on side of training that we're gonna be able to now use Opus as a complement with. And as we want to grow soft skills, because in my my vision, the way of the future and what AI or economics is gonna do to the business, what is never ever gonna go away is the human connection. And I want to be able to capitalize on growing soft skills. That's one of the biggest pieces that we're gonna use Opus with. We we have so much that we can teach and allow others to learn. And my two children are gonna be part of that generation that needs to learn what it's like to not have a screen in their hand. And I know that a learning management system is gonna get a chance for us to tap into the different avenues and the different generations and what it means to demonstrate actually talking with another human and serving them and serving them the way that our brand expects them to.

Rachael Nemeth: 14:08

I love that. And I think it's there's so many uh companies that make uh soft skills training the number two instead of the number one. And I think when you do that, it's gonna depend on the business, but I think in your case, you guys are expanding, you're thinking about, you know, what bench you're building. And so it makes a lot of sense because it's almost like you can spot those leaders early if you're teaching the soft skills. So when you're identifying those potential leaders from your operational experience, what are the specific behaviors that signal that someone has management potential versus being just, you know, technically excellent at their job? I don't think turnover ever lies.

SPEAKER_01: 15:00

Turnover is a number that's absolutely gonna be able to tell you the health of a store. Now, I do know that turnover is gonna be high in period five and period nine because that's when our students commute. That's when they either so that, right? But outside of that window of expectation, do people want to stay and work for that person being able to see that commitment? Um gauging team happiness outside of going through it in a survey. Um, I can talk on a store visits that I got to do this week. I got to a chance to be in two stores, um, two very different stores. I'm in one store where they're different. Um customers are being served, and one of the stores is being served off of the ways of our past. I don't think seven leaves customers being disappointed, but they're not being enriched. Like the the service like uh metrics and what we expect in a script and all that great stuff, they're there, but there's not a life behind it. And there's there's so much tacit approval in the building. And that's how I know that the manager is not committed. Like tacit approval is one of your number one indicators for that. And then in the other building, like there's energy, there's there's smiles, there's just a genuine willingness to communicate and connect with each other about what they're doing and the customer that's at the drive-thru window, and even a willingness to talk and connect with somebody who's visiting their store without looking at them like, why are you here? Am I in trouble? Yeah, because there's a level of commitment there to where they know why they're at work and what they're doing. Um, and I actually attribute most of that stuff to the community that each store is building within itself. Um, the biggest answer that we get off of exit interviews, and it's been this way since the day I started, is what people are gonna miss the most is the people. Like that's just the number one thing, hand is down that anybody who leaves seven leaves ends up saying that they missed is the people. And it's the people that they got a chance to connect and build their own community with. Um each of our stores, I think for the most part, operates in a very healthy way of what its community is. And if it's not, we course correct it because that's not our culture. And from having worked at a few other concepts before myself, I that's rare. To build a system and a process where it's not a dog-eat dog world and there's a a willingness to serve. Um that's those are the types of leaders that that we look for. Alignment with our core values. Yeah.

Rachael Nemeth: 17:42

Well, and you also mentioned this. You said you said something earlier about like we have a framework for this. And I didn't know if that was sort of like a gentle framework. There's some things that we think about, or is it, you know, we have this written down and we know what good managers look like.

SPEAKER_01: 17:58

We memoralize it for the first time because we've asked ourselves that question. Okay. Their acronym is COMPASS, and then we're now building the same thing for our shift supervisors at their level. So everybody has their expectations that fit their field of management.

Rachael Nemeth: 18:25

Interesting. Well, so given that you have this framework, I want to talk about the opposite side, which is, and we sort of referenced this earlier, which is not everybody's cut out for it, or not everybody's the right fit in in your case. What what's one of the harder conversations that you've had to have with a very high performing contributor who really wasn't cut out for management? Like how did you how do you navigate that?

SPEAKER_01: 18:56

Uh, with clarity and with honesty, and getting a chance to focus on behaviors and actions, um less on it being personal. Um the book, the four agreements and not taking things personally is one of the most valuable um life lessons that we could all possibly learn from, but it's not easy. Um I'm extremely sensitive. Every single day. One, am I not only the youngest of four girls who the second you call me annoying, I'm I'm gonna have like PTSD because I'll be fine. Um I'm also a mom of two kids and I open up myself to get feedback from them. And it, you know, it stings, but but you need it. Um I would not be where I'm at right now talking with you today if there were not pivotal moments in my career where I was giving feedback. And my wholehearted belief in that is what allows myself to propel myself into having conversations that are just honest with other people. Most of us, I think, have grown because of feedback that was constructive. I am not here because of a GPA or because I was told good job on a test. Like that's that's not reality. Um and for us to have a chance to impart um life skills and career skills in our store managers and actually get them to want to work here as a career in that position and then to teach others and to lead and guide them that same way. We have to be honest on what's going well and what our areas of improvement are. But it hurts. Um, still very, very human. I think there's some great psychological tips and techniques out there that that we can apply. For me, one of them that's benefited me is picturing your an empty chair in the room or actually physically having an extra empty chair that's meant to be your customers. And for me, I've had a few tough conversations this past year that are tough because you you know what it would be like to be on the receiving end, but you also know if you don't have that conversation. One, there's never going to be a chance for them to change or to improve. Two, you're never actually gonna have a chance of knowing more of what they're going through. A huge part of any of those conversations starts with actually getting an understanding of their experience and what their thoughts and feelings are, um, and getting to get some alignment and being on the same page of what reality looks like for both of you. Because if you're if we're not doing that, if I'm not doing that, you're you're failing. You're you're not leading others. Um and I I had an individual that did that for me back when I worked at Sioux Plantation. Um, and if she hadn't called out a few of my opportunities, I I promise you I wouldn't be here today.

Rachael Nemeth: 21:42

Well, and and I agree, it's hard to to ask for that feedback. It's hard to give it. Zooming way out. Um if you could teach one thing to every new district manager based on the own feedback you've gotten, um, and based on your own journey, what would it be?

SPEAKER_01: 22:08

Empathy without strengths. I I think humans, and even though we don't want to admit it about ourselves, like we we have biases and it's so easy to to just judge and makes uh make initial assessments, or also to have like a previous version of someone's self in your mind and not allowing them to change, like continuous empathy and allowing each each day, each week or each month to be part of that journey for your empathy. If you have a if I have a district rent manager right now that's coaching a store manager, and we both know what their opportunities are and we've been working on growing, but everybody who's ever had an opinion of them stays in the past, we're not allowing that person to to ever grow with us because that that's it's it's it's it's almost becomes a rap sheet. Um, so for me, empathy um outside of every definition that the internet will actually give you, but my connection with it is like a willingness to actually just be continuously open to what the experiences are now and just caring for humans and individuals.

Rachael Nemeth: 23:22

Well, so flipping it back to you then, uh, before we get into our lightning round, when you're having a rough day, what reminds you of uh why you chose to build your career and operations?

SPEAKER_01: 23:40

I just want to surf. I don't really have um an eloquent or a very an ability to articulate like a an eloquent answer for you. I just want to surf. So if I have a tough day, it's usually because there's a challenging situation that's calling on my leadership. And it's pushing me in a spot of discomfort. But I know that I need to make, I need to move. There's it's so like there's a a random song that I I reference that's like from me being in high school that was, I think, like in a walk to remember, but like daring yourself to move is I think one of the, and having courage is one of the the best things you can do in a leadership position. And knowing that if you're having a bad day, it's a gift in a very odd, not sadistic way. Like you're you're human, um, you're having feelings, you're real, you're experiencing what you're experiencing. Um, but my my bad days come from me needing to do something. And I I have feelings and I'm going through and picturing what it's like to be on the receiving end or to be the customer that's about to be impacted by a price update. Just all of the variety of things, but also living and sitting with the fact that if I don't make a decision or I don't move, um everyone will suffer.

Rachael Nemeth: 25:07

Right. Yeah. I agree with that.

SPEAKER_01: 25:10

Um, you know, it reminds me of I do have two kids that I get to go home to and um my sorry, I also have two kids that I get to go home to, and they I think they're my limiting factor in not having the worst days.

Rachael Nemeth: 25:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 25:25

Like I want them to grow up with this. Yeah, I don't want I don't but I don't want them to to be afraid of having a career or thinking that stress and responsibility are a negative thing. Like they know what challenges I go through, and sometimes they're my solutions. Um I yeah.

Rachael Nemeth: 25:49

Um it's I appreciate you saying that because I grew up I grew up with very two very hardworking parents as well. And like they were, they would come home stressed, and that was okay, and they would talk about it and they would talk about their day. It wasn't, you know, nobody put masks on. And so it's it's sort of the difference between living and breathing the experience of work and you know, um, just sort of letting it be a door that you shut at the end of the day. I have so they were an inspiration for you. Oh, they were, yeah. Just incredible. And um a big reason why I view the world of work the way I do now is because I had parents who respected a good a long, hard day's work and but also tried as hard as they could to put up boundaries and say, well, you know, this is where it ends. Um and that might have meant they worked a 50 or 60 hour week, but it also meant that like we had dinner every night together. Um and so you just have to decide what your boundaries are and what you want to take home. I still haven't fully figured that out as a working professional, what I take home and what I don't. I think it's a little different when you're a CEO, but I really I deeply believe in work like work-life integration, at least for myself. It's a really important component of how I I walk in the world. Um, it's not great for everyone, but it's always worked very well for me, you know? Yeah. And you're happy? Of course. There's nothing better than owning your own business. Well, not everybody wants it. Well when I was a kid, um when I first started the business, this was, you know, 10 years ago. I remember talking to my mom, and I was like, you know, I never saw myself as an entrepreneur. You know, I wanted to be an archaeologist when I was a little kid, and then I wanted to be an interior designer, and then I wanted to be a linguist, and working in restaurants was always just a side gig to help me pay my loans. And she goes, Of course you always wanted to be an entrepreneur. And she pointed out all of these things that I would, you know, hack and try and try to build all the time. Um, she's like, you and your brother literally set up your own town with a post office and your own currency in the basement and our like little unfinished things. Um she's like, You you've had it in you the entire time, but a lot of that's because of you know what I witnessed um growing up. So um yeah. And but I can tell that that from all from this brief interaction with you that you know, all you've taken all of these experiences with you and it's made you the great operator you are today. And um, and I appreciate you offering so much um perspective on the truly soft things, the squashy things, the human things. Uh I think it's easy to forget that when we're trying to hit our numbers. With that in mind, we're gonna end on a fun note. Um, I am gonna end with the lightning round. Everyone's favorite part of this show. Uh I'm gonna ask you five questions and Ellie, do your best to answer them in less than a few words, less than three. Um I always get the evil eye when I say one word, one word. Um so brief answers. Um one, what was your first job? Baskin Robbins. I love it. I still love Baskin Robbins. Uh, what's a restaurant trend that you were completely over? Oh, restaurant trend completely over.

SPEAKER_01: 29:55

Sushi?

unknown: 29:57

Sushi

Rachael Nemeth: 30:00

That's bold. Um, what's the last book you read or podcast you listened to? Leaders Eat Last. And what skill are you personally going back to basics on right now?

SPEAKER_01: 30:21

Active listening.

Rachael Nemeth: 30:24

Last question: if you could give your twenty-five-year-old manager self one piece of advice, what would it be?

SPEAKER_01: 30:40

Trust your instincts. Also, I was a brand new mom at that time. That was when I first started drinking coffee. That was a whole new world.

Rachael Nemeth: 30:50

Um, Ellie, it's been a real pleasure talking with you. Thank you so much for your time and for offering your expertise. And uh, we'll see you soon. Thank you, Rachel. Appreciate it.